Hello, fellow travelers! We will all learn together how to use this technology.
For now, please just acknowledge that you are "in." I will send you an email reminder to check the blog when I have posted a substantive comment about the summer series.
Tracey
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If you get to this page & don't know what to do, click on 'comments'. I'm in!!!! chris
ReplyDeleteHi, we're in, too.
ReplyDeleteRich and Marie
I'm here - although I won't be able to attend most of the classes. But of course I'll always have an opinion :-)
ReplyDeleteAm I blogging?
ReplyDeleteYes you are!! Welcome to the wonderful world of blogging!
ReplyDeleteAlice is subscribed.
ReplyDeleteHello Tracey,
ReplyDeleteI'm in!
Thanks
Paul G
I am so proud of all of us! This will enhance our experience in the Film Series this summer. Some other folks are having problems getting in, so I am working on that.
ReplyDeleteBlog on!
I am on! Shari
ReplyDeleteNot sure where I am!
ReplyDeleteHopefully in the correct place.
Ginny
Hello, my fellow adventurers and travelers! More misadventures! More windmills!
ReplyDeleteThe first film in our series is "Man of La Mancha," on June 17th at 9:00 am in the Fireside Chapel. Steve doesn't like musicals, and he told me I could only "preach Don Quixote" once. However, he didn't say anything about blogging, so I feel I have a free pass to discuss this film. Hah!
"Man of La Mancha" is the dramatized form of the book, Don Quixote, by Cervantes, a Spanish author and playwright (1547-1616). Cervantes had been imprisoned during the Spanish Inquisition for a brief time; "Man of La Mancha" takes place in a prison setting in honor of the writer's journey.
The Spanish Inquisition was a monarchical, rather than a papal, campaign against Jews, Muslims, and Lutherans in Spain during the 15th century (lasting until the early 19th century!). It was originally ascribed to Catholic monarchs Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella of Castille, who felt the Catholic orthodoxy slipping out of their control due to ineffective popes, freedom of thought and written words, and the multi-culturalization of Spanish society following its reconquering of the Iberian Peninsula from the Moors (Muslims). Many Jews emigrated (upwards of 800,000) so as to avoid persecution and/or forced conversion. As many as 40,000 consented to being baptized (known as moriscos). By the 1500s, the Inquisition was directed in earnest against Protestants.
After short trials, persons could be acquitted (rare), the process could be suspended (to force the defendant into compliance), the defendant could be penanced (usually some punishment/torture/imprisonment), or reconciled (with severe punishment), or relaxed (burned at the stake).
Such is the backdrop of our film, where a poor playwright (Cervantes) has been thrown into a prison and is awaiting his trial. He is forced by the other prisoners to defend himself, and he does so by using them to put on his play, "Don Quixote de la Mancha" there in the prison cell. The result is that his life is spared by the prisoners, and the prisoners are transformed by their experience.
This play demonstrates a multi-layered transformation. The characters in the story are also transformed by the senile antics of the aging, lovable Don Quixote, who has been transformed by his affliction into the gullible and laudable Knight of the Woeful Countenance. Guided by his quest to do right, Don Quixote seeks the purity of knighthood as he attempts to slay his enemies, serve his lady Aldonza, and uphold justice and righteousness.
His most serious--and ultimately his final--opponent, the Black Knight, is actually a mirror image of his true self, forced upon him by "well-meaning" family members.
This play/movie has been formative for me in my life since I was very young and watched my father direct my uncle in this play at DU. More on my experience later.
What do you remember from this play or movie in terms of themes, songs, or scenes that you remember from having seen it before in your life?
It was a "long, long, long, long, long, long", time ago when I first saw the movie. And I have chased quite a few 'windmills' during my lifetime. Now I'm ready to settle into this intriguing plot.
ReplyDeleteHi!
ReplyDeleteAfter about 20 minutes of trying to figure out how to actually POST, I think this is right, right???? And, I cannot get a picture to upload... any advice?
ReplyDeleteWay to stick with it, Betsy! Now you are in. Some pictures can't be uploaded because of their size. I took a picture of Shari with my phone and that worked. It must be in Jpeg it seems. Glad you've joined up!
ReplyDeleteHello, fellow seekers:
ReplyDeleteThomas a Kempis wrote:
"Although we cannot always preserve our recollection, yet we must do so from time to time, and at least once a day, either in the morning or in the evening. In the morning form your intention, and at night examine your conduct, what you have done, said , and thought during the day, for in each of these you may have often offended both God and your neighbor." (The Sacred Way, 87).
Ignatius, living in the end of the 16th century (early 1500s) in Spain, developed a spiritual discipline of mind exercises designed to "conquer himself" by "first examining his own life in an incredibly thorough manner, and then meditating on the life, death, and resurrection of Christ." (90)
Ignatius sought to:
a. reform (what had been deformed by sin)
b. conform (action to that of the divine model, Jesus)
c. strengthen (what had been conformed) and
d. transform (by love the already strengthened resolutions)
Writing in the same era,Cervantes writes of Don Quixote's engaging in a rigorous daily, although unnamed, spiritual discipline reminiscent of the Ignatian Examen. This is why I chose this film for our first of the summer series. I just love how this mess of a guy reforms his world, seeks to conform his actions to the highest standard of chivalry, strengthens those who are oppressed who come into contact with him, and thereby transforms himself and all of them as well.
What do you see when you look in the mirror? Are you critical of yourself? Do you love yourself? Do you try to examine your day and the way you have lived your life in that day? What is "The Impossible Dream" of your life? Of our lives as Christians? C'mon, let's have some chatter here--don't be timid.
This is another test!
ReplyDeleteChatter coming your way...I'm not sure when I look in a "mirror", I see me. I see the shell of me, getting older all the time, but to see "ME", I think I need more than a mirror. I am very critical of myself and I try to love myself. My day is always a good one if I can feel good about something I have done that involved someone else. Is this not universal? I am still honing my own "impossible dream".
ReplyDeleteWell, I hope I'm in. Fern
ReplyDeleteBetsy brings up a good point. Sometimes that trip to the mirror reveals an image that cannot possibly be me. I think of myself, as does Betsy, as something more than the shell--I need to. For Cervantes, he lived out his life through the image of Don Quixote, Knight-Errant, because his own life was full of a melancholy "reality." He needed to encapsulate Don Quixote's naive, but virtuous outlook, his courage, and his way with people in order to live in the harsh reality of his time. Similarly, Dox Quixote needed the structure of the poet's storytelling to make a story out of the end of his life--a story worth telling for 5 centuries now.
ReplyDeleteSo I ask the question anew: Is Don Quixote a tragic figure? A comical figure? A heroic figure? An everyman?
And here's another question: what compelled Sancho Panza to follow Cervantes/Don Quixote? Was it just that "he liked him?"
I think Quixote is a tragic yet heroic figure, not a comical one. It was difficult to watch people make sport of his delusions, because he wasn't harming anyone with them, well, except that accidental poke with the lance!! He believed in noble efforts, and that really shouldn't be comical. Now Sancho was comical! I suppose he followed for the same reason people followed Jesus... the simple purity of purpose, selflessness of people is very compelling. Maybe??? Maybe Quixote gave Panza a purpose his life otherwise lacked???
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed seeing the movie from the perspective of looking for themes from The Sacred Way. It gave it more depth for me.
As I watched the movie (first time I'd seen it) I kept relating it to Carol's sermon last Sunday, wherein she made the excellent point that "being sucessful" is not the goal of our lives: being faithful is. That is what Don Q. was. At the end "Dulcinea" brings that up to him as he is about to renounce it. Don Q. has given all the prisoners a new vision of what they can be, rather than being the degraded brutes they have been.
ReplyDeleteIt goes well with my own philosophy that "it is better to light a candle than curse the darkness" ( I think that's from somewhere in Proverbs?) Sometimes I work at a project long after many others have decided it's not going to succeed. It's better to make things better for a few others than throw in the towell and say it's all hopeless.
( I hope I chose the correct category for my comment)
By the way, I will be out of town June 24 and July 1. I will just have returned July 7 and may not make it to the July 8 session. Sorry to miss so many good films.
ReplyDeleteJust to let you know, I will on vacation from June 24 thru July 9. Thanks to you Tracey for all of your work setting this up.
ReplyDeleteSorry we missed today. Packing is going great, but we certainly have too much stuff. Had a two day yard sale, have made numerous trips to Goodwill, still too much stuff. We'll try to get back next Wednesday.
ReplyDeleteBlessings to all,
Marie and Rich
Hello, all. Today was a difficult day for some in the class. I believe I bear some responsibility for that, so in future weeks, on this blog and in class, I will attempt to set up the film better in relation to the topic. I will also suggest some images to watch for.
ReplyDeleteIt occurred to me today that the themes we have explored so far--Self-examination, and service, apply to both movies. We talked about how Don Quixote and his alter-ego, Cervantes, viewed himself, and we talked about Sancho Panza's suggested motivation for serving the knight-errant. In The Kite Runner, the main theme we explored was service, but our discussion today also centered on how Amir perceived himself and his prior failure to protect Hassan. Steve suggested that Hassan was fulfilled in the role of servant, and even after being shunned by Amir, sexually violated, and accused falsely, he still (as Alice stated above, chose "to light a candle rather than curse the darkness." Do you suppose Amir also found the candle in his life that allowed him to leave his darkness? How would you analyze his father's attitude towards Amir as a boy, and later as a man?
I do think that Amir found "his candle", his mission, his goal, and that was to serve Shaorob (I forget the spelling...sorry), since he could not redeem himself through Hassan any more. Protecting Shaorob, and giving him a "new life" in America offered Amir something worthy to strive for and definitely a way to serve.
ReplyDeleteAs for his father, I think that given the time/place, and culture of that day, his father loved Amir in the only way he know. His father wanted Amir to be all the qualities that he, himself, valued. Amir was NOT the same character and personality as his Dad, and could never be. Hassan was more the son that the Dad wanted, but like they said, you don't get an empty sheet to color in with children... they are who they are. When Amir grew up, I was very touched by their relationship. His father's love came through more profoundly with Amir when Amir was grown, I thought.
I think Amir's father only complained about two things: the Russians, and his son's passivity. He endured much without complaining however: the death of his wife, the loss of his son and friend, the loss of his house, fortune, and status, the loss of his culture, language, ways of doing things. I have softened in my attitude toward him. Still, his attitude, coupled with the rigidity of his culture, prevented justice for Hassan or redemption for Amir until much later in life. Thanks, Betsy, for you post. If others are reading, but timid, please try--we are all learnning this mode of discussion together.
ReplyDeleteNow, on to "Doubt," this week's film. Please read or review the section on Icons in The Sacred Way. But this week, in contrast to last week, the topic is more parallel to the movie--running alongside it if you will--than last week's discussion of "Service," a topic directly discussed in both The Kite Runner and in Man of La Mancha.
ReplyDeleteIcons, in Eastern Christian Orthodoxy, are paintings of Jesus or of Mary & Jesus, or Mary alone. There may be one in the movie--I don't remember. This is not how I am using the term, however. I am using the alternate meaning of "icon": an 'important and enduring symbol', from the Greek, meaning "image" or to be like, or seem like.
Therefore, as we watch the movie, taking into account the elements common to icons from Tony Jones' book:
1. its great seriousness;
2. its silence;
3. its gravity; and
4. its sobriety,
I invite you to watch in the movie for themes that fit this definition. For example: Father Flynn is suspicioned to have an "improper relationship" with his student. What are the important and enduring symbols of the professional clergy person that are called into question by the movie? One might answer, that clergy are supposed to love the children, without LOVING the children (if you get my drift); that clergy are supposed to be chaste; that clergy are supposed to be good in teaching positions; that priests have more power than nuns. What about nuns? What are the stereotypes and symbols that you associate with nuns? What is the role of the church? What is the role of the parent of a child in this situation? What are the important and enduring symbols of justice that are called into question by the story?
If you don't like the topic of "icons," may I suggest that you focus on the issue of the rights of the accused. Is it enough that an accusation is made and the evidence is supicious? Is it a violation of rights of Father Flynn, seeing how his accuser is a nun and not a police or judicial authority figure? What right do we have not to be accused of something by a well-meaning person? What are the rights of the child involved, and is there a balancing to be done here, as his mother suggests, that "he needs a male figure to care about him?"
This movie is rich in innuendo and unanswered questions of moral and morals balancing. Who do you align with in this movie? To whom do you find yourself to be in opposition? What should you do if a clergy person is suspected by you of having an inappropriate relationship with a child, given that there are all kinds of implications and complications that go along with such a situation? See you Wednesday.
I am home from 2 vacations and coming to class tomorrow morning, July 1. I hope I'm in.
ReplyDeleteJoyce
Great class today, everybody! Thanks for sharing honestly. there was a wide range of experience, leading to a wide range of opinions about Father Flynn's guilt or innocence. I am left wondering where all these figures (Sr. Eloisius, Sr. James, Father Flynn, Donald Miller) would be in five years time. what do you think?
ReplyDeleteFor instance, I think Sr. James' faith crisis would continue to work on her, and she would leave professional religious life. Anyone want to speculate?
As you reflect on the movie, what iconic institutions are threatened by the actions of the characters in the movie? Which will endure?
Well, it's me again...first, I agree with you about Sr. James. I think she has "seen" the world, and is not sure she wants to be part of it. Although I would like to hope that some people like her can have their eyes opened, yet stay involved. We need refreshing souls like hers. As for the iconic institutions, well, some of them are already passe, like nuns' habits, the way some teachers used to treat students. I think most institutions nowadays have more transparency. Less is hidden, although some certainly still is. People have more exposure now, don't you think? Between Twittering, Facebook, MySpace, and cell phones/cameras/texting, life is happening as we watch! Even in schools, churches.
ReplyDeleteHey Folks, here's my first post. I've been thinking quite a bit about Doubt. I loved the movie. I thought the acting was outstanding. Merle Streep did a great job of crating a character that you love to hate, or at least I loved to hate her.
ReplyDeleteOne of the lingering thoughts that I have from the movie is how the church oppresses people from allowing their true selves to emerge. I believe that the Priest was not a pedophile, but was gay. He did not molest the young boy, but identified with him and reached out to him. The saddness was that the Priest had to repress his true identity in order to not only stay a priest, but to stay i the church. This is very prevelant even now in our own church culture. There are gay and lesbian pastors who do not "come out" because they fear losing their ordination. Other people, like Laurene Lafontaine, who is a very gifted pastor and leader, cannot be take a called position because she has come out. Why is it that the church oppresses people from expressing their true identity?
Other people are afraid to expose their own sense of doubt about God, about Jesus, about the Holy Spirit, about the church, for fear of being rejected.
Why is it that people who follow a God who is all loving, and all forgiving, have created an instituional church that is restricting and repressive.
I long for the day when the church can be as accepting and loving as the God that we follow.
Ok, I just read that first entry, excuse the typing errors. I didn't edit before I posted. This should be fun. When will the rest of you join the blogging fun?
ReplyDeleteLiving in an atmosphere of fear changed the personality of Sister James from a loving, warm teacher to someone who is angry. If believe she is not teaching in that school and maybe left teaching. If she stayed - she is in theraphy trying to figure out who she is.
ReplyDeleteIf Sister Eloisius is still the dragon of the school and still torn by doubts.
Father Flynn is still moving from church to church or maybe he is a potato farmer in Idaho.
In regards to Steve's comments regarding creating a restrictive and repressive faith, because people are afraid of freedom and need to have laws and rules to live by because they are comfortable living in a box.
Living in an atmosphere of fear changed the personality of Sister James from a loving, warm teacher to someone who is angry. If believe she is not teaching in that school and maybe left teaching. If she stayed - she is in theraphy trying to figure out who she is.
ReplyDeleteIf Sister Eloisius is still the dragon of the school and still torn by doubts.
Father Flynn is still moving from church to church or maybe he is a potato farmer in Idaho.
In regards to Steve's comments regarding creating a restrictive and repressive faith, because people are afraid of freedom and need to have laws and rules to live by because they are comfortable living in a box.
I'm still learning how this all works so please excuse the double-entry....
ReplyDeleteBlogging can be a dangerous thing, and blogging without proofing your work is even more dangerous. I retyped Darlene's blog for her and it was late at night, I was tired, as well as lazy (that's my story and I'm sticking to it!) So what Darlene wrote in the first place was concise and well written - I am to blame for the resulting post - sorry.
ReplyDeleteStill responding to Wednesday's discussion: I thought Tracey's first question was "Who is this movie about?" I think it is about the Church.
ReplyDeleteHow did we know (if we did) that Donald was gay upon watching him in the hall embrace with Fr. Flynn after his books were knocked and scattered? By his acceptance of Flynn's lingering, caressing embrace. A heterosexual probably couldn't have taken comfort dished out quite that way.
5 years later: Sr. James would leave the church or be contorted and compressed by it's inconsistencies. She is too pure to handle the double talk of the institution. Fr. Flynn would like to leave. Whether he could might depend on how the Catholic Church handles retirement benefits. I'm guessing he would have to hang in there (strapped)to get them.
I think it is dangerous to label or judge someone just off a fleeting encounter. I think it is equally dangerous to talk in all-isms about any identified group of people. We know that Donald is gay from his mother's disclosure, not from his acceptance of a hug from Father Flynn. I am heterosexual, and I have always loved and accepted hugs from those persons who are important to me. I wish I had experienced more of them as a child. It is a product of the sickness in our society that we see a sexual motive in all we see, especially if we lack understanding.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Steve that the Christian Church has oppressed those seen as differing from the mainstream. To me, THAT is the real sin.
I would like to read other opinions.
This post is a pre-comment as to "August Rush." This is a delightful movie, easy to watch, and an easy movie with which to fall in love. Freddie Highmore is a precious child actor--very engaging. His smile is a killer. Robin Williams does a great job playing a very complicated character. is he a good guy or a bad guy? He reminds me of Fagan in "Oliver."
ReplyDeleteKeri Russell is from Boulder--she is authentic in her performance, as is Terrence Howard as the social worker. it's nice to see a social worker portrayed as competent and caring--a much maligned profession.
As you watch the film, where do you see Body Prayer acted out? There are some obvious ways, but I see more subtle ways throughout the story.
A Steve-esque "I hate musicals" warning: the ending is a bit fantastic, but I love it anyway. All good fairy tales end this way, and it is why we love them.
Also, reviewing the past themes:
Where do you see the discipline of Examen?
Service? Icons?
See you Wednesday
It's late to be posting about "Doubt" AGAIN, but here I am! I am so excited that several more people blogged!!! Good reading material, everyone, and some great thoughts to ponder. I don't think the church is really anything more than a mirror (here we go again, with the mirror theme!!!) of society. Society gets awfully nervous when things change, or when someone is overtly different than the mainstream. "We" seem to want everyone to be doing life the way we are. HOnestly, sometimes I think it's because so many people don't really do or live the way they WANT to, and since they gave in to mainstream demands, they want everyone else to. For instance, when I got divorced back in the late 70's, an awful lot of people (esp. women...) who I thought were friends kind of deserted me. I wasn't part of a "couple" anymore, and that made them nervous, like maybe it was catching. It was an eye opener for me. Lots of people are so afraid of being different that they won't even let their minds try to grapple with unfamiliar choices. Sad. Anyway, see you tomorrow!
ReplyDeleteHave you or someone you know ever become so focused on a plan or process that you couldn't break free from it ... even to the detriment of those around you whom you were hurting? The last sentence in the movie summarized it for me: "I have doubts. I have such doubts." Meryl Streep was magnificent!
ReplyDeleteI think I made it - Tracy, you are asking for trouble letting me comment - I'm very gabby - Ruth
ReplyDeleteWay to go, Ruth! We look forward to your wisdom and insights.
ReplyDeleteMarie: i certainly have been so narrow in focus that I have missed the emotions and the turmoil that I caused by being so directed. I think you are getting at Sr. Eloisius' crusade to get rid of Father Flynn such that she wouldn't/could't see anything but those snippets that confirmed her preset conviction. it's a great life lesson to see someone else do it, and reflect (examen?) on our own history. Thanks for the question.
August Rush / Evan Taylor. Why haven't I seen this movie before? I love it when the "white hats" win. I wish each of us could encapsulate some of the spirit that Evan had in order to persevere and continue his search. Even though it is under the "fiction" catalog, I still believe in fairy tales. Thanks, Tracy for including this film.
ReplyDeleteMarie
I, too had never seen the film and I thought the fairy tale quality just added to the enjoyment of it. And YES, I do believe that fairy tales do happen sometimes in real life, but that we often miss them, because we don't always believe in what we see. We often have trouble believing what we DON'T see too, but sometimes, we toss out possibilities that don't conform to what we think is supposed to happen. I especially appreciated the way August stuck to what he believed was right for him. His parents had given up/given in maybe, to the world's expectations, but at the end, they realized they had to follow their hearts and dreams. Not really so fairy tale"esque", is it? We always do best when we listen to our hearts... at least I know I do. Probably shouldn't speak for others! I will miss next week's as we are out of town, but will see you the 22! Enjoy, all!
ReplyDeleteGood movie, Tracey - I believe in miracles/fairy tales - we had an experience with our cat which 99% said wouldn't happen - and I'll bet some of our class members have had "experiences" or know of one -
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comments on "August Rush." I love that movie more each time I see it.
ReplyDeleteThis week's film, "Seven Pounds"--starring Will Smith, is a difficult film to understand. IF YOU DON'T WANT THIS PREVIEW, skip to last paragraph for the framing questions.
ReplyDeleteThe basic story: Tim Thomas is a retired aeronautical engineer, but he goes by BEN Thomas and he claims to be an IRS agent. (You will figure this out near the end.) Due to an accident in which 7 people are killed, Ben blames himself, and sets about trying for redemption by helping 7 other people. In the accident, 6 people who died were strangers to Ben, but one was his fiancee, Sarah Jensen. Therefore, he chooses 6 strangers and one person close to him to try to save. His plans are derailed when he falls in love with one he has chosen to help (Rosario Dawso--Emily--remember her as "Mimi" in "Rent?")
Questions to ponder as you watch the movie: Can we redeem our mistakes through good deeds? Are Ben's good deeds his salvation or ultimately his damnation? What guidance do we, as Christians, find to help us answer these questions?
See you Wednesday!
Alice in Wonderland--a quirky little story by a quirky little man. Here are my questions: What life lessons are learned by Alice from her travel through the labyrinth of Wonderland?
ReplyDeleteWhat can we take, as churchgoers, from the underlying commentary of this story? Carroll's work was largely a polemic against the Anglican Church, the Church of England.
I will give a background and setting before we watch the film. See you tomorrow!
Sorry I missed today. I am leaving in the morning for a week in St. Louis to help my brother-in-law finish his basement remodel. I won't be there next week either. Wally
ReplyDeleteHeloo, out there in movieland--or should I say Bollywood land? I am writing from Chris' computer today, because he is out of town and I have puppy-duty, so I am upstairs.
ReplyDeleteSlumdog Millionaire may be one of my favorite movies. I love the message, even though I can't hope to understand the setting in the slums of Mumbai. This movie is for anyone who has been put down, repressed, told they can't do something worthwhile, that they will never amount to anything. There is no superhero in this film; there is only super-heroism by a boy with no particular training or expertise or background.
Here is my overriding question: Who do you know in your life or experience (including yourself) who is a true Slumdog Millionaire? Who has risen above their limitations--natural or imposed--to an enriched and admirable life?
And my second question: Did Jesus have to go through his Passion in order to fulfill his purpose?
Third, following from questions 1 and 2: Do we have to go through our own form of Passion--challenges, pains, angst, defeats-- to be a good Christian?
See you Wednesday!
Tracey
It's Wednesday morning here in the St. Louis area and I still have one full day of sanding drywall in my sister's basement. The trip has accomplished what I came for: helping my brother-in-law finish the basement remodel since the problems with his shoulders had brought the project to a halt. Keep my sister, Nancy, and her husband, Neil, in your prayers as they both have significant health issues. Also prayers for Nancy and I as we face her having to quit her job. She is working six and a half days a week to try and keep up with the work and is just worn out. And there is no end in sight.
ReplyDeleteI'm not much of a movie watcher and have never watched Slumdog Millionaire, but I love Tracy's second question. For the first sixty years of my life (until coming to CUC, I thought my spiritual goal was to learn what I should believe. In this vain I learned that Jesus came to die for our sins. This never clicked for me, but I figured if I said it enough at some point I would actually believe it. Mostly through the Wednesday morning class I have learned to examine issues that I think I am supposed to believe and see if they make sense. With the Leviticus study I found an alternative interpretation for why so many people think Jesus had to die (including Paul). Jesus was Jewish as were most of the disciples. Physical sacrifice of things for spiritual atonement was as normal as going to the marketplace. It is not surpising that they would interpret Jesus' death with such a common spiritual practise. But I'm not Jewish and my spiritual ritual doesn't include bringing grain or livestock to the church to be sacrificed for atonement for my sins. I spent a lot of years trying to convince myself that self-sacrifice was the same thing, but I have given that up.
The big question that I and others have when discussing this question is "Why did Jesus come to earth if not to die for our sings"? With the help of CUC theology a second reason for Jesus' coming is readily available. Jesus came to show us what God is really like. Trying to comprehend that God is a loving God who wants to be in relationship with me and accepts me with all of my faults is actually harder than believing the sacrificial role. But it is more fun to try and picture God being tickled pink to spend time with this poor creature in Colorado (well St. Louis actually today)!
Fascinating discussion today, folks! Destiny always sounds sexy when it relates to an adventure, an accomplishment, or a love affair. It's less attractive to think of having a destiny when you are on your way to prison, or a divorce, or a funeral home to make arrangements for a person you loved and lost too soon.
ReplyDeleteYet, I can't help but think in my own life of certain occurrences that I have trouble thinking were random. For instance, who would have scripted that I would be thrown through the front windshield of my car at age 19 and ten years later I would have my mental faculties restored enough to be a judge lecturing kids about wearing their seatbelts? Was it written that I was to have that experience so that I could be in a very real position to save others from going through what my family and I did?
Was it coincidence that Sister Patrice, my nun friend, was just behind me in the locker line at SMU Law School the first day, and we would be assigned to share a locker? She is what kept me sane through law school, kept me looking for the ethical angles in what I studied, kept me in the question of God. For her, I kept her in school--kept her from giving up, even when in Year 2, she got breast cancer and had to undergo radical surgery to save her life. I consider her a God-given gift to me--no accident. Her Order of nuns are the Sisters of Divine Providence. (Remember Steve defining that word for us today?) Sr. Patrice says it was "providential" that we were in that locker room one right behind the other.
Did Chris just "happen" to walk into my law office and have me instantly know he was the guy for me? I mean, I knew it within 2 minutes of talking with him that God had sent him to heal me.
I have a whole list of these types of questions and circumstances.
Here's my current problem: I have been studying in depth the predictions about what might happen in or to the world on December 21, 2012. I am somehow drawn to this topic in a very intoxicating way. Is our planet destined for destruction on that date? Did the Mayans, The Aztecs, the metaphysicians, the Peruvian shamans, and a whole host of scientists get it right, or get on a bandwagon and get it all pumped up for nothing? Will something happen to change the way we relate to the world and to each other short of destruction? If you don't know what I am talking about, just google 12-21-12 and be ready for a roller coaster ride. Anyone who wants to talk about it, let me know. Otherwise, I won't say more. But destiny is a word that circles around this whole discussion. Thanks for continuing to wrestle with me.
Way to go Tracy and Wally -
ReplyDeleteListening to the discussions in all our classes, I really feel I'm out of my depth - but hopefully, I am/will be continue to learn -
Re the 12-21-12, Tracy - I have heard about it - tho not much - and am just not letting it affect my daily life - I guess I feel, what will be will be and who knows - if that is true, maybe the path will fork somehow -
Chariots of Fire--One of my favorite all-time movies! I am glad to bring it to our film series as we consider the meaning of "Sabbath." The following is a quote from the film, out of Eric Liddell's theology (he's the main character). See what you think about this:
ReplyDelete"You came to see a race today. To see someone win. It happened to be me. But I want you to do more than just watch a race. I want you to take part in it. I want to compare faith to running in a race. It's hard. It requires concentration of will, energy of soul. You experience elation when the winner breaks the tape - especially if you've got a bet on it. But how long does that last? You go home. Maybe you're dinner's burnt. Maybe you haven't got a job. So who am I to say, "Believe, have faith," in the face of life's realities? I would like to give you something more permanent, but I can only point the way. I have no formula for winning the race. Everyone runs in her own way, or his own way. And where does the power come from, to see the race to its end? From within. Jesus said, "Behold, the Kingdom of God is within you. If with all your hearts, you truly seek me, you shall ever surely find me." If you commit yourself to the love of Christ, then that is how you run a straight race."
Ok, I wanted to make sure that posted--it's alot to type! Now, think to yourself, "How is faith like a race?" u
ReplyDeleteUse your own experiences, your own stories, and your own theology to answer this question.
As for the issue of Sabbath--what does it mean to you to "Remember the Sabbath?" Does it mean, as in Eric's theology, that you can't participate in something you love on that day? Does it mean just going to church? Are the blue laws (against buying cars, for example) meaningful anymore? Is there a larger meaning to Sabbath?
Consider this quote from Steve's Gym Bag Bible:
"Carving out a twenty-four hours time frame to allow your body, mind, soul, and community to rest, is one of the main components of our Judeo-Christian tradition. The writers of the Old Testament viewed it as one of the key things that God did in the creation of the cosmos....If there was ever a commandment that our society needs today, it is the commandment to rest. We are a twenty-four hour a day, seven day a week culture. I wonder: what are the prices we pay for this type of pace?"
Was this Eric's objection? That he needed, that he was commanded, to rest? What do Steve's words mean for you in your life? What does it mean to "rest in the Lord?" Take a look at Mark 2:27--what did Jesus mean when he said, "The Sabbath was made for humankind, and not humankind for the Sabbath?"
Thomas a Kempis wrote, "The spiritual person puts the care of one's soul before all else." Hmmm. How do YOU care for YOUR soul? Teach us! Tony Jones reminds us that Sabbath "is yet another spiritual discipline that at first blush seems to be about giving things up, but in the end becomes a gift that is beyond price." Do you believe that, or is following a strict Sabbath rule just a further frustration in your busy life? For many of us, we only have one or maybe two days "off." When are we supposed to get any errands run, get any chores done, or get any planning done for the next week? Isn't it enough to carve out a meaningful worship time and maybe a Sunday dinner with family?
A tough question... the Sabbath. I have never "kept the Sabbath", but refraining from doing the things I do on all the other days. It just wasn't possible for so many years with so much going on and expected of me. (Lousy excuse, huh?) Since I do not "work" anymore, I feel like weekends are really Tom's time, and whatever plans help him to be refreshed and renewed for Monday morning, I feel are the plans to go with. Not that I don't get something out of those plans, too, but just that I am very aware that Tom needs ways to unwind, to relax, to feel renewed over each weekend, and so... Again, a tough issue... the Sabbath.
ReplyDeleteAs for "running our own race", wow, another loaded question! I think if we do not run our OWN race in life, we have diminished all the possibilities that our Creator loaded into each of our lives. I mean, if I personally do not work at figuring out MY life, MY path, MY gifts to do God's will, and instead do what others want me to do, THEIR path, THEIR wishes, then I have wasted what God has put into Betsy, haven't I? I may (and DO) make mistakes, but they are mine, and it is for God and me to work that all out. But it does take courage to walk out on the paths I choose for myself, hoping they are the right ones. Enough.
I have always looked at the commandment to keep the Sabbath holy, from the side, sideways, looked behind the front interpretation ... there must be more than one way to look at God's word. Surely, as Webster gives us more than one interpretation, God will also! The Sabbath was made for man ... I like that. This should be a time to be with God whether in church (MAJOR for me), in God's country in the mountains, walking, biking, having a meal with a friend, doing chores that didn't get done last week, reading a good book. Why must there be ONLY ONE interpretation of this passage?
ReplyDeleteCompare faith to running a race,hmm. I think that just as there are participants and observers in a race, there are participants and observers in faith, in seeking a deep relationship with God. I can come to worship more or less regularly, listen to the sermon and scriptures, hear inspiring music, and then go home and that's it. It's over and move on to the next thing. UNLESS I really experience God's love and try to live it out, I will benefit little and just move on. I've had a few "mountain top "experiences and wish they would last forever, but they inspire me to try to live in God's love, to participate in God's goodness. I think that's what Erik meant.
ReplyDeleteAbout keeping the Sabbath---I remember the first time I ever went to a movie on Sunday. My parents finally decided that since my youth group was going together to see the film "Here I Stand" about Martin Luther, I could go. It was a big deal.
Now I try to do things on Sunday that involve family or time in the mountains or a great concert---not household chores if possible. (and not sports events---sorry football fans)
I like the idea that the Sabbath is a gift. A gift of resting my mind, my soul, and my body. It is a time to evaluate my life's journey.
ReplyDeleteOur lifestyle is so busy and at times frenzied, we need time to relax, breathe and think. Boredom does have a healthy aspect to it.
I wonder what makes an activity holy. Watching the Broncos or the Rockies play fits into my idea of what is holy. Hmmmmm!
Over my lifetime keeping the Sabbath has been evolving. As a child our family had rules of what we could or could not do on Sunday. We could work at taking care of the animals on the farm, but we could not work in the fields plowing, planting, or harvesting. No stores were opened so there was no buying. There was a theater, but we were forbidden to go. Church attendance was mandatory.
As an adult I used to struggle with what I could or could not do on Sunday, such as washing clothes or shopping or mowing the lawn. Legalism is such a demon. As I matured(?)I was able to turn all that stuff away. I now find it easy to worship God and rest. I do plan activities with my children and grandchildren and friends and I am guilt free.
I have great respect for people who can say no to challenges in their life. I believe that it is the no's in life that develops strong character. I admired Eric for his stand, but I doubt if God cared one way or the other.
By now, you have probably received my email that I am switching this week's film. "The Mission" is just too hard to watch. The violence was overwhelming; the story was oppressive and deflating. I just couldn't watch it again, nor subject the whole class to it. If you want to know more about the Portuguese church's purging of the Rain Forest People of Brazil in the 1750s, then this film will educate you. It is beautifully filmed, and expertly acted, but...
ReplyDeleteI have replaced it with a film that came out a few years ago that for reasons that will become clear when we watch it, never got much press play. It has no big-time actors, and it is a story told from the perspective of another struggling culture--the Maoris. This film may touch all of us, however. For anyone who has ever struggled through family dynamics and power structures, loss, depression, expectation, and triumph of the spirit over all those things, this movie is for you. While it does not castigate the male-dominated structures of traditional societies, it does celebrate the quiet strength of women and teaches us to look around us at what God is bringing into opportunity for us all the time.
I intended to talk about redemption this week, and this movie will bring that question around us as well. There are the big questions of redemption--like: can anyone be redeemed no matter what he or she has done (Hitler? Harris and Klebold? Osama bin Laden? Saul--Paul?)
Or, what about the ones no one hears about--the incest within a family kept secret, the pregnancy terminated that is off-limits for family discussion, the history of physical abuse that scars the emerging adult for life and plays out in the next generation? Where does justice and redemption intersect anyway? If someone has wronged you, and then in shame and repentance, changes their life, is that good enough for you? Are you then vindicated? If not, what justice is justice enough?
Again, sorry for the choice I made; please come be renewed in the faith of The Whale Rider.
In a small New Zealand coastal village, Maori claim descent from Paikea, the Whale Rider. In every generation for more than 1000 years, a male heir born to the Chief succeeds to the title.
ReplyDeleteThe time is now. The Chief's eldest son, Porourangi, fathers twins - a boy and a girl. But the boy and his mother die in childbirth. The surviving girl is named Pai.
Grief-stricken, her father leaves her to be raised by her grandparents. Koro, her grandfather who is the Chief, refuses to acknowledge Pai as the inheritor of the tradition and claims she is of no use to him. But her grandmother, Flowers, sees more than a broken line, she sees a child in desperate need of love.
And Koro learns to love the child. When Pai's father, Porourangi, now a feted international artist, returns home after twelve years, Koro hopes everything is resolved and Porourangi will to accept destiny and become his successor.
But Porourangi has no intention of becoming Chief. He has moved away from his people both physically and emotionally. After a bitter argument with Koro he leaves, suggesting to Pai that she come with him. She starts the journey but quickly returns, claiming her grandfather needs her.
Koro is blinded by prejudice and even Flowers cannot convince him that Pai is the natural heir. The old Chief is convinced that the tribe's misfortunes began at Pai's birth and calls for his people to bring their 12-year-old boys to him for training.
He is certain that through a gruelling process of teaching the ancient chants, tribal lore and warrior techniques, the future leader of their tribe will be revealed to him.
Meanwhile, deep within the ocean, a massive herd of whales is responding, drawn towards Pai and their twin destinies.
When the whales become stranded on the beach, Koro is sure this signals an apocalyptic end to his tribe. Until one person prepares to make the ultimate sacrifice to save the people. The Whale Rider.
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I took this from the website for the movie. It helps explain the background better than I can. I will be running the subtitles, as some of the language is hard to understand.
I think this movie will be very meaningful to watch in view of "redemption" and there are other issues there as well that are well exemplified in the film... atlhough it's been years since I watched it. I have struggled at times with God's redeeming love given to ALL. It's hard to imagine Hitler being forgiven, when I don't think he ever asked to be... Maybe it takes two to fully embody redemption, God, who is always offering, and the sinner, who may or may not feel the need for forgiveness. Can you be forgiven if you don't accept it??? A major question for me to wrestle with.
ReplyDeleteI recently read Ishmael Beah's book "A long Time Gone". Talk about redemption! His account of life as a child soldier in Sierra Leone's civil war is horrific. Even more moving is his story of recovery and his efforts to bring this event to the conscience of the world.
ReplyDeleteI have some momories of The Whale Rider, so am looking forward to seeing it again---
I got to wondering - are the qualities/abilities of leadership born in a person or can a one be trained to adequately lead -
ReplyDeleteGood comments about last week's discussion. let's move on to "Knowing" a film that again calls to mind the issue of destiny and pre-determination of events.
ReplyDeleteThis movie is apocalyptic--that is, it speaks to "widespread devastation or ultimate doom" for the world, as predicted by a creepy little girl obviously racked with prophetic knowledge.
However, as will be seen in the film, it is not an eschatological (eska-toe-logical) story, as humankind is not entirely doomed to extinction in this plot.
Questions:
1. Who are the mysterious blue men in the movie?
2. Do you believe some people have the spiritual gift (or burden) of prophecy? Have you known anyone who holds this gift?
3. Do you believe an apocalypse may happen in your lifetime (such as being touted in the mystery of the 2012 predictions)?
4. What do you believe we, as Christians, are to think about the "end times," the "apocalypse?" Is there something we are called to do at present?
See you Wednesday! I'll be curious to hear your thoughts on this movie and these questions.
Tracey, do you know whether Steve is recommending HEART OF CHRISTIANITY (2004) or LIVING THE HEART OF CHRISTIANITY (2007) both by Marcus Borg? Wally
ReplyDeleteWhat is the title of the book we are studying next for the Bible Study....all I can remember is that it has the word "alter" in the title.
ReplyDeleteI might not have come yesterday had I fully realized what the movie would be like. I do not like "the literature of despair" represented by end of times stories. If it were up to me, I would drop Revelations out of the New Testament.
ReplyDeleteMy reasoning is this: as I see it, the heart of Jesus' teaching is to love our neighbors and to serve those who are in need. Focusing on end times and gloom are not relevant to serving others. The devotional I read this morning encourages believers to put on "the helmet of hope", God's hard hat, it was called. Hope does not have to be all frou-frou and unrealistic. It is lighting a candle instead of cursing the darkness (my favorite philosophy). Ever notice how much light a candle puts out in a dark space?
So, movies and books about end times are usually so discouraging that I'd feel, "why bother to light a candle? It'll just be blown out".
I'd rather put on God's hard hat (I like that metaphor!) and get back to work serving those who need God's love.
Well put, Alice. I think that is our calling, and it has always been our calling. I, too, have to keep my focus on-task so as not to get bogged down in darkness. That's why I stopped reading the paper and watching TV news--and I am much better off as a result.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, there is certainly alot of talk about the doomsday prophecies, and many people I encounter in need are worried about the future of our country, our planet. It's good to know what's "out there" in the opoular culture, even if we choose to reject it from our own theology and sense of purpose. Joyce, for example, said she retired partly due to the spectre of 2012--that is big. I have been drawn to this literature, too, and am wondering what God wants me to do about it. Thanks for staying and sticking it out--your comments were very helpful, and your attitude is inspiring.
As to the Borg book--you have to ask Steve--don't know which one he means. The new book we will be reading is: An Altar in the World, by Barbara Brown Taylor.
Our final film will be The Soloist. It's a marvelous story and it is beautifully filmed and acted by Jamie Foxx and Robert Downey, Jr. Thanks for your attendance and willingness to be flexible so far.
Listen for the oboe solos in the movie. My niece Jennifer is the one playing in the movie sound track!
ReplyDeleteWell, here we are at the last of our 11 movies. The Soloist I found intriguing, captivating, and inspiring. In other words, full of relational heavy stuff, introspection, and a sappy ending. This movie makes me question what I am doing to fulfill the missional side of my ministry.
ReplyDeleteA bit about the plot from a review of the movie: Journalist Steve Lopez discovers Nathaniel Anthony Ayers , a former classical music prodigy, playing his violin on the streets of L.A. As Lopez endeavors to help the homeless man find his way back, a unique friendship is formed, one that transforms both their lives.
It probably helps that the homeless guy is played by Jamie Foxx and Robert Downey, Jr. plays the reporter. The story is based in truth and frankly, it makes me a) glad I live in Denver and not LA, and b) makes me aware of how a whole lot of mentally ill, drug addicted, homeless, and poverty-stricken people live in this country of ours.
Where do you see the theme of solitude and silence played out in this movie in the two main characters? Is it always good to try to "fix" someone, to mainstream them? Is Nathaniel living the life he should?
See you Wednesday. Tracey
Signing off now. Thanks for participating in the film series and in this film series blog. I have enjoyed the great conversations, and we all have learned about the power of the spoken, the written, and the acted word.
ReplyDeleteSee you in a couple of weeks. Tracey